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 palaheal 4.0

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Griffit
Winnie l'Uuurson
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Nombre de messages : 414
Age : 38
Classe : Palaweak (wow) Sith Maraudeurs (Swtor) voleur (gw2)
Date d'inscription : 18/09/2009

MessageSujet: palaheal 4.0   Mer 13 Oct 2010 - 14:12

Je vous mets mon futur template pour la 4.0

http://wowtal.com/#k=t3D8aJe1.a5o.paladin.RSaLDe


Dernière édition par griffit le Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 12:19, édité 1 fois
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Griffit
Winnie l'Uuurson
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Nombre de messages : 414
Age : 38
Classe : Palaweak (wow) Sith Maraudeurs (Swtor) voleur (gw2)
Date d'inscription : 18/09/2009

MessageSujet: Re: palaheal 4.0   Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 11:36

vu la quantité de post qui pleure pour le paladin heal, voilà la réponse du MJ

I feel like we have done this several times and what many paladins are looking for is not an explanation, but buffs. Nevertheless, I'll take you at your word and try and boil down our design intent.

The Past

The BC and LK design of the Holy paladin was basically to use one or two spells and get a lot of use out of them. This is sort of like the mage dps design, where there aren't a lot of sources of damage, but there are a lot of other factors (cooldowns, procs etc.) that make how you use those spells more interesting. So rather than the paladin having 5 different heals, they pretty much used Flash of Light or Holy Light (depending a little on what gear stats and encounters looked like at the time) but with other spells to boost those heals, such as Beacon of Light and Divine Favor, and then all the paladin support abilities, like the Hands.

Paladins (all three specs really) were designed to be a really passive class, with Protection doing a lot of passive threat generation (e.g. Consecrate) and survivability (e.g. Ardent Defender), Ret doing a lot of passive damage (e.g. Seal damage, Vengeance) and Holy doing a lot of passive healing (e.g. Judgement of Light).

It made paladins play really differently for sure, but it was also kind of boring. Because so much of what the class did was passive, players weren't making a lot of choices. Because they weren't making a lot of choices.

We made some pretty radical changes to the paladin class for Cataclysm. There is another resource to master. There are opportunities to do the wrong thing. A great paladin will have earned his or her greatness.

The Holy paladin niche, especially in Lich King, was to be the single target healer. In a raid, this almost always meant the tank healer. We designed boss damage to tanks specifically around what Holy paladins could heal. It was okay for paladin healing to be overpowered, because they really weren't competing with anyone for tank healing privileges and we could just make the bosses hit harder. The paladin tree wasn't very sexy though. It came with a lot of passive, boring or downright useless talents. Paladins were at the forefront of our mind when we decided to change talent trees.

Being in the same role all the time also gets boring. Imagine only one melee class (say rogues) had a reliable interrupt, so rogues were always given interrupt duty. Imagine mages had the only form of crowd control -- every encounter that's what the mage would be doing. When the Holy paladin can only heal the tank, then every encounter starts to feel similar to the poor paladin healer. They never have a chance to offer to stick with the second group or to raid heal or to watch the melee. With our attempt to make 10-player raids feel more legit, we wanted to handle the possibility that you might end up with two paladin healers (or perhaps a Disc priest and a paladin healer). We'd prefer you to run with a diverse raid comp, but we understand that isn't always possible.

There are Holy paladins who are used to being overpowered, because frankly that's the way things were for a long time (again, metered by the fact that your niche was very narrow). For them, anything is going to feel like a nerf. Likewise, there were players who were attracted to the class because it was very simple. We heard for years from the paladins who wanted something more to do, so it doesn't surprise us that now that we're delivering on that, some of the paladins who were fine with the status quo are now voicing their displeasure. Overall, we're very happy with the new design. We think it's fun to heal as a paladin. The numbers might not be quite right yet, but that's the kind of thing we're still tweaking. Perhaps two years from now there will be a lot more going in with Holy Power, but we think we have a good framework from which to iterate.

The Future

We think Holy paladins are good at 85. Holy Radiance is a powerful AE heal. Light of Dawn is too, though it's more situational. It really shines in larger raids. (Maybe we should have switched which was the talent and which was the core ability, but we knew Light of Dawn could have a more dramatic graphic effect since it was instant, which we wanted to reserve for the healer.) Paladins have more choices now about how to heal single targets -- they have a similar arsenal as the other healers when choosing between efficiency, speed or throughput. They can choose to avoid healing the Beaconed target or go ahead and heal the Beaconed target, with different results for each. They still have a little bit of self healing with talents light Enlightened Judgements and Protector of the Innocent to try to keep that feel of them healing two targets at once, as well as being sturdy healers, as fits someone wearing plate and carrying a shield. Mana efficiency is something to keep an eye on, but we have a lot of knobs to turn with things like Seal of Insight and Beacon of Light. We recently made a change to make Judging Seal of Insight provide more mana to the paladin. Paladins can heal fine in 5-player dungeons and are doing great in raids so far, though we're about to get a whole lot more data on that.

The Present

Unfortunately, many of these strengths don't show up at 80. Missing Holy Radiance is huge. Mana isn't much of a problem on live today partially because health pools are still much smaller. There isn't much of a choice about whether to use Holy Light because the comparatively low expense of Flash of Light, coupled with the risk that someone may die at any second makes the decision about which heal to use not too challenging. We haven't seen too much evidence yet that paladins are much poorer tank healers than other classes, though I understand many of you feel that to be the case. (It also doens't help that the popular logging programs and websites aren't showing Holy mastery yet.) If we do decide Holy can't competitively tank heal any longer, then we will buff them. This is tricky though. Too much of a buff and paladins and raid leaders are just going to conclude "Oh, Holy paladin = main tank healer" again. Contrary to what you might suspect, our blue posts reach a very small fraction of even the raiding community. Sad Mana may be a bigger problem at 80 just because we tended in the past to avoid putting regen stats on healing plate, and many paladins are sticking with the old models of stacking spellpower or haste, even when faced with mana problems.

Also contrary to how you might feel, we think we did pretty well with healer balance in Lich King. All 5 healing specs were represented. We think we can erode their niches a little, such that the two druid raid can heal fine, or such that you can put a Holy priest on the tank and a paladin on the raid, without having the healer that nobody will want. We haven't been in a situation where a healer gets sat for a long time. I don't think it will be that way in Cataclysm either.

As a footnote, it's always hard to talk about the "average healer," let alone the "average WoW player." There were paladins struggling for mana before this most recent patch and those who balanced their Flash of Light and Holy Light use. There were probably some who healed the raid and doing an awesome job. We have to look at lots of different players and often talk about you in more general terms than you actually possess. Just because any of the above doesn't apply to you personally doesn't make it an invalid conclusion. Just keep that in mind.




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Griffit
Winnie l'Uuurson
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Nombre de messages : 414
Age : 38
Classe : Palaweak (wow) Sith Maraudeurs (Swtor) voleur (gw2)
Date d'inscription : 18/09/2009

MessageSujet: Re: palaheal 4.0   Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 12:10

En gros nous devons attendre le nv 85 pour commencer à healer No
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takuan
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MessageSujet: Re: palaheal 4.0   Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 12:20

Tu te situes comment par rapport à cela ?

Je veux dire pour moi le paladin c'est effectivement du haut de mes 4 ans de jeu LE soigneur de tank par excellence. Blizzard n'a pas toujours essayé de lutter si fortement contre. A lk, ils ont donné des outils à d'autres classes pour healer le tank et aider le paladin à soigner le raid avec le beacon (ce qui au final a renforcé son role de soigneurs de tankS).

Actuellement, ce que je trouve gênant c'est que quand tu dois tenir un role (ex hier heal de tank), tu n 'y arrive pas. Ils ont beau dire que c'est pas vrai pour tout le monde, on a une pretre sacrée stuff 232 qui faisait plus que toi stuff 264 (et largement) ce n'est pas normal ! Peut etre que la situation change au 85 mais dans l'immédiat c'est la merde !

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maas
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MessageSujet: Re: palaheal 4.0   Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 12:52

en gros vous arrivez à rien parce que vous êtes des gros teubé et en plus vous verrez ça va roxxer au 85......Perso le sentiment que j'ai en raid , c'est pisser dans un violon quand je soigne et quand j'essaie de visualiser comment changer le stuff et compagnie, je deco sous la montagne de travail que ça me demanderait....vais attendre patiemment le 85 en continuant à ramer au heal :p
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Evy
Bon samarit'Uuurs
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MessageSujet: Re: palaheal 4.0   Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 12:53

Actuellement le holy pal c'est en dessous d'un chaman en heal de tank et en dessous d'un druide en healde raid !
Mais bon on est au courant que l'equilibrage ils s'en foutent pour les 2 mois qu'il reste ! ^^
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Griffit
Winnie l'Uuurson
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Nombre de messages : 414
Age : 38
Classe : Palaweak (wow) Sith Maraudeurs (Swtor) voleur (gw2)
Date d'inscription : 18/09/2009

MessageSujet: Re: palaheal 4.0   Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 12:53

Là je sais plus quoi faire, nous somme pas capable de tenir un rôle (manque de burst pour le tank et rien pour healer le raid).

ça va tellement loin que sur les gros serveurs comme archimonde, ils refuse les paladins heal dans les raid de icc Shocked

de mon côté je vais encore faire des tests jusqu'à modifier tous mon stuff.
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takuan
Plus d'iduuurs !


Nombre de messages : 5103
Age : 35
Date d'inscription : 31/08/2006

MessageSujet: Re: palaheal 4.0   Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 13:52

Quelle combativité, c'est beau !

nb : ce message est dénué d'ironie malgré ce que pourrait penser les mauvaises langues !!!
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Griffit
Winnie l'Uuurson
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Nombre de messages : 414
Age : 38
Classe : Palaweak (wow) Sith Maraudeurs (Swtor) voleur (gw2)
Date d'inscription : 18/09/2009

MessageSujet: Re: palaheal 4.0   Mer 20 Oct 2010 - 11:43

Yes, we buffed the 5 paladin direct heals (FoL, HL, DL, HS, WoG). This is a change for both level 80 and 85. We are going to tone down Holy Radiance as I described in the other thread. It can be powerful without being 75% of paladin healing.

I know it's customary for players to classify everything as either overpowered or garbage, but we believe there are actual numbers in between say 1 and 100, so give the changes a chance before you dismiss them.

It is possible we will nerf Word of Glory for Prot and Ret at 85 to compensate for this buff since they probably don't need stronger Words

cheers
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